Still, Bazzite should think about users that will use the desktop mode most of the time…
Especially now that windows users are moving towards distros like Bazzite, and they don’t use handhelds
I don’t think a single word Jorge said had anything to do with handhelds or HTPCs.
1 Like
I build my own images and check in on the forum every now and then, and I don’t even open github that often.
I like the way that Fedora does it. There’s a clear procedure with expectable cadence (or minimum period). Once it gets rolling, you also have a beta period that gets a decent amount of coverage. Bazzite obviously wouldn’t get the same level of coverage, much less the rest of ublue, but following the same cycle should allow for it to be mentioned in the news as well.
I feel like if you can’t make it to the time period where people expect major updates will be done, it should wait until the next period for it. I know it’s more of a big deal in the kernel development, but it make sense as a practice if you ask me.
I think it is because Linux is pretty much a refuge from Modern App Designs, and it is inherently philosophical and political in nature due to its ties to FOSS, practicality, and the rest of the ecosystem.
People like Mental Outlaw (which, for the record, I rarely watch) for example is pretty disappointed that what’s happening in the Linux space is that Linux is getting adopted but not that many people cares about the libre side of Linux and ownership of their software.
UI toolkit isn’t normally a big deal, but it was when Qt have its problematic license way back then, and it matters now when GTK is developed to be Gnome first while it otherwise dominates the native Linux software side.
I personally don’t want to care either, and usually I don’t. In this case I just noticed because changing the way you get your app is kinda a big deal, and I’m paying attention from the perspective of, “Okay, this is a big deal, but it’s not THAT big of a deal, but what comes after this?”
I admit I probably lean towards “Mr. Paranoid” if we borrow Sid Meier’s types of testers/players, but I do see my OS as a tool to get what I want, and I am of course concerned when the direction starts to look like things I didn’t enjoy and sought refuge from (Windows, iOS, Android, Gnome…).
1 Like
Now that Discover is gone, will there be a user-friendly GUI-tool to install RPM-files? Rather than using the terminal.
I ask because I just needed to install the Horizon Client and double-clicking on the RPM-File only opened ark to extract the files.
I think that can be solved with a fedora container inside Distrobox
I haven’t heard people say that Linux is a refuge from modern app design and I can’t say that about myself either. I like modern app design (granted I was born after the 2000s). I don’t like how unreliable Windows is and Macs can’t game, if you go look into the comment section of a mainstream gaming/PC channel, you’ll see a similar sentiment. And just because something was once tied to something doesn’t mean it will keep being tied that way. Meanings change over time and depends on culture, to the average SteamOS user, Linux just means “not annoying Windows” to some people it might mean freedom. It’s similar to how Christians and non-Christians view Christmas in my country (where Christians are a minority), it doesn’t mean anyone is right or wrong.
If Mental Outlaw is upset then we must be doing something right tbh
4 Likes
I disagree, that’s how you end up with a forum full of people arguing about whether Flathub is a good thing or not. Improvement does not wait for an arbitrary date, nor does it require one.
I see no reason to believe a slower rollout would have changed your feelings about Bazaar, nor would this discussion occurring for months longer changed the outcome.
1 Like
Nobody cares about this. You will not find a single Windows user annoyed that GIMP uses GTK or qBittorrent uses QT. This conversation is a waste of everyone’s time that chooses to participate in it.
I invite you to remain part of the 4%. We’re moving on.
2 Likes
Discover did not offer this and we will not either. RPMs are a tool of last resort.
You can layer them with rpm-ostree as always.
3 Likes
Yes it does, at least on Fedora I can install RPM using Discover.
That is normal Fedora, that is not what’s on offer here.
That feature has never been offered here and will never be offered here.
You can create a custom image to arbitrarily install any RPM you like, or layer them over ours with the command line.
That’s odd. So using the terminal is the only option, i see…
I love this update and can’t wait to try Bazaar, but I don’t think that command line output, GitHub, Discourse, YouTubers etc. are a good way to inform “the 96%” about breaking changes. I already consider myself an enthusiast because I lurk in so many places when I should really be working, and even I was confused when the “Welcome to Bazzite” tool suddenly disappeared a while ago.
Some kind of super high-level change log in desktop mode would really help a lot, or maybe what Apple did with their Keychain Utility, where you can still find and open it, but it then shows a dialog and forwards you to the app it is being replaced with.
1 Like
You can’t just install rpm through double-click on Atomic Desktop images (like Bazzite, Bluefin etc). You should insert it into the system image through rpm-ostree. But safer way is to use Distrobox with Fedora. It can provide installed app just in your applications list.
1 Like
100% rpms work through Distrobox, and they can get their own .desktop file making them indistinguishable from other apps. This is the way, with layering being the last resort.
Some people here and on reddit seem to say they didnt know about the Bazaar change and thought something broke - out of curiosity, do Plasma and GNOME offer any native user notification systems that can be leveraged here? Like a box that would pop up on startup to say “Hey, this is to give you heads-up that on date X we will be changing Y”.
It could also be used to share some of the changelogs or major announcements + invite users to discourse for more info and discussions. I think this would resolve the “I didnt know” issues going forward.
Sorry, I meant modern app practices. Like how Microsoft is forcing Copilot whether users like it. How a lot of apps like YouTube removes important features like dislike counts and then push in features like forced auto-dub. Or like Adobe sneaking in a change in terms of services where they could use your data on their server to train AI.
Also, yes, I don’t like Mental Outlaw myself. But I do care about ownership - I would cite Stop Killing Game and Right to Repairs, but that’s a bit different.
And yeah, I really like SteamOS. My only complain is that it doesn’t have a proper installer yet and trying to install it on my ROG Ally sounds like a hassle, haha.
Manjaro had Matray, but I don’t know if they still use it. I still have good sentiments about Manjaro to this day because, for all their issues, it was my Manjaro install that survived the grub breakage of 2023 (also managing to mostly dodge the broken glibc update as well thanks to their update cadence). Matray was how I found out about the grub breakage, and then I posted it on Reddit in which it somehow is still my highest voted post - cementing how useful it was to me since THAT many people missed such a major issue that it took me reposting from Matray to realize what’s going on.
If we’re talking about something less specific and that can work through the native system, DitchTheBell looked good?
2 Likes
I wouldn’t say this is comparable at all, just because both are changes doesn’t mean it’s the same type of change. It would be silly to claim that because humans grow up and frogs grow up, then I can predict the result of a grown up human by looking at an adult frog. I think you’re pushing it a bit with your paranoia issues.
That kinda what leads to a maintenance burden of packaging KDE though. Even KDE agrees that at some point they need to stop and make sure that people can test, confirm, and properly ship their packages to the end-users. This is part of why Gnome is chosen by many of the bigger distro - the other part is, of course, being the old Qt license issues.
And if you think that it would change nothing, then that’s fine. But we don’t live in that worldline, we live in this one with all the imperfect communication of the last few month. And I’d like it if people don’t use the idea of a hypothetical alternate reality to speak about how I would feel or react.
How you introduce something DOES matter - a well-meaning change that isn’t well communicated will just create confusion if not resistance.
Actually, if you look around, you’ll still find people who don’t like MS Office transitioning to Ribbon UI to this day. Also, we do see a decent amount of people talking about Liquid Glass, Aero, Metro UI, etc. To this, Windows Settings using a mix of new Settings app from Win10 while some things are still on Control Panel or Win95 dialogue boxes is still a common complain.
Additionally, UI frameworks are just much more diverse on other platforms - you’d actually see complaints about unexpected behaviour, outdated UI, or some specific thing is implemented in different frameworks. Just not “UI Toolkit” as we know it because that’s much less diverse in terms of native Linux UI frameworks.
But yeah, let’s agree to disagree. It wasn’t my main issue in any case. My issue remains to be pushing of beta software into stable on a minimum notice replacing the upstream software that worked well enough for all the distros much larger than us.
2 Likes
Maybe. But I’ve been here before. You can choose to not speak up about something you’re passionate about or something you’re worried about until it’s too late, or you actually say what your problems are and why you think it’s a problem.
I’d rather speak up now and have it be kept in mind for future cases over just staying silent until it became too much.
FOSS is great, but they’re not immune to continuous lapse in judgement. It is outright part of the reason why everything is fragmented IMHO.
Edit: also, for a more similar case, see Fedora 32bit proposal. Should people stay silent then?